Oliver North documenting real heroes, real war stories

By Derek Paiva
Advertiser Entertainment Writer

Oliver North has gone from making history to documenting it.

In 1986, Lt. Col. Oliver North became the public face of the Iran-Contra affair and ended up losing his job. Today he's on a new mission: honoring America's combat heroes by seeking them out so they can tell the world about their experiences under fire. Fox News Channel

These days, the 58-year-old North labors as an author and quasi-celebrity journalist. In addition to hosting a nationally syndicated daily radio show, North worked for the last two years as a sometime war correspondent for Fox News Channel, where he also hosts "War Stories."

Co-crafted by North and executive producer Pamela Browne, the weekly series documents, first-hand, the stories of individuals involved in known and little-known American battles of the last century.

"War Stories" airs in Hawai'i on Sunday afternoons at 3 p.m. on Fox News Channel.

North was in Honolulu last month to collect tales for an upcoming "War Stories" recounting the mini-submarines sent into O'ahu waters by the Japanese Imperial Navy before dawn on Dec. 7, 1941. The episode is to air in January.

Lt. Col. Oliver North is sworn in July 7, 1987, before the Iran Contra Committee prior to his testimony. North testified that he "never personally discussed" the diversion of Iranian arms sales profits to Contra rebels with President Reagan. Associated Press library photo

Courteous and relaxed throughout our chat, North got prickly only when pushed for the umpteenth time about his connection with Iran-Contra. Overall, the staunchly Republican North seemed happiest and most in his zone when asked for his two cents' worth of conservative opinion about current events and politics. Here's a Q&A:

Let's start with how you became involved with "War Stories."

I sent a proposal off to Fox News and said I'd like to do a show that recognizes the extraordinary sacrifices of soldiers, sailors, airmen Marines (and) let them tell their stories in their words rather than me narrating it. Fox has two basic criteria for me. Number one, (we) have to have the real footage; (we) can't fake it and make it up. ... Second of all, (we) have to have real eyewitnesses. And so we go all over the world. I mean, in the last five days I've been from Washington D.C. — where my Fox News and radio and television studios are — to London, to Munich, to Ankara and back to San Diego and now, out to here.

How involved are you in the selection of "War Stories" subjects?

I choose 'em all. I've got a great production team. I've got 12 youngsters up in New York and one in Washington (D.C.). with me. ... It's a collaborative effort. Most of (the ideas are) coming from people sending us mail ... story ideas.

How much prep time do you put into the show?

I help write the questions. I help write the script. I mean, first of all, I'm a student of history. I mean, I've been involved in some history. I think it's important to get it right. For this particular episode, I've probably read five books.

What makes the story of the Japanese midget submarines at Pearl Harbor good for "War Stories"?

Well, what I love about "War Stories," and I really do mean this ... is the idea that we can put these people who have done daring, difficult and dangerous things in the service to our country and give them a chance to tell their story. ... What I like about the whole thing, Derek, is that these people tell their stories. I ask the questions and I try to vector it in the direction that I think people in your age group are going to be interested in. The reason (I've) been focusing so much on World War II is that we're losing (people).

Why is it so important to you to reach my particular age group (twenty- and thirtysomethings) with this?

Well, look, I've got youngsters ... one of whom is probably younger than you are and the other three, probably, just a little bit older. I've (already) afflicted my kids by dragging them around every museum and battlefield east of the Mississippi over the last 35 years. But unfortunately, we don't spend very much time teaching history. And quite frankly, many of our colleagues — yours and mine — in the media business spend a lot of time bashing ... looking for a place to say mean-spirited things about other people, other events and things like that. There's a lot of criticism.

Of history?

Oh, I think ... for example, if you look at the Vietnam War. I mean, up until today, most people were making some supposition about the sniper in Washington D.C. — and I've had calls about (this) — saying this has got to be a Vietnam-era sniper. ... And that's because there's an attitude that's been fomented out there that a guy that served in Vietnam is some kind of twisted, pot-headed marauder. That's not what this show is about. This show is not to try to prove some theory about, you know, good people (or) bad people. What I want to do is put before the American people and our audience internationally the remarkable stories of people who've done very difficult, dangerous things under extraordinary circumstances, simply because their country called.

I'm sensing a parallel here to your own life and what you've been through. Is that another reason you enjoy doing this?

No ... no. I mean, I do have that experience. And I certainly know what it's like to be described as something other than what I know myself to be. And my colleagues with whom I served in that war were certainly not the way they were described in most of the entertainment of the day. Look at the way Oliver Stone describes guys who served in Vietnam in his movies. ... So there's still an attitude out there. And I'm not basically out there trying to disprove it. I'm trying to say, 'You know what? These are remarkable people.'

On to more current politics. Did Sept. 11 take you by surprise?

Well, certainly the action did. In fact, I was on a flight that morning. ... I'd been up to (Detroit) to do an interview the night before, took the 8:35 flight out of Detroit inbound to Reagan National (Airport) due to land at 9:55. And as we were coming down the river, the hijacked airplane comes up over Arlington Heights, banks hard to the right and just as we're coming in, slams into the west wall of the Pentagon. We did an emergency landing over at Dulles.

Did you see the airplane strike the Pentagon?

I didn't see it hit, because the pilot saw that. But after (we) banked and turned, you could certainly see ... the fire at the Pentagon. Look, 9-11-01 is not a sophisticated terroristic attack. ... Notwithstanding what you may have read or heard, my real job at the White House from 1983 to 1986 was to be the U.S. government's counter-terrorism coordinator. I had a little committee that I chaired. It was all very secret. ... I don't think that anybody ought to be surprised that there was a capability to do (what happened on Sept. 11). Surprise that somebody actually (did) it, sure. ... What did they do? They took advantage of lousy immigration controls, a visa express program in Saudi Arabia where all you had to do was make a phone call and you got a visa issued, lousy airline security, and, quite frankly, (a) lax security and licensing process for identification for my commonwealth of Virginia. Eleven of the 19 (terrorists got) bogus drivers licences in my commonwealth of Virginia. And so, am I surprised that they could (do this)? Hell no! Am I disappointed that they did? Yes. Will it ever happen again? No. And it's not going to be because we've improved airline security that much. Here's why it won't happen again: because of what happened on Flight 93.(Here North describes the saga of United Airlines Flight 93 where several passengers, after finding out other hijacked airliners had struck the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, turned the tables on their own hijackers.) Because of Todd Beamer and three other people, there will never ever again be a successful hijacking. Not as long as there's an American man on the airplane. Because they'll never let it happen. The proof of that is what happened on that American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami. ... You've seen the pictures of Richard C. Reid. Richard C. Reid didn't look that way before they tried to stomp him into the flight deck. ... And that's what's going to happen to every other terrorist who tries something like that.

Was a terrorist attack of the magnitude of Sept. 11 inevitable, given the intense hate many radical groups worldwide feel for our country?

First of all, we spend a lot of time, you know, kind of wringing our hands about why people hate us. And I think it's a wasted exercise. Look, Americans are captured, kidnapped, tortured and killed in Colombia every year. Why? Because the FARC (Forces Armées révolutionaires de Colombia) — the narco-terrorists who are running half the country down there — think they can get away with it. And Islamic jihadists — which is the proper term — jihadist terrorists have been killing Americans since 1982. And unfortunately, from 1993 until 2000 they were able to get away with it.

If you look at it, there were seven major terrorist events aimed at the United States from 1993 onward. And absolutely nothing was done except the commander-in-chief got up, wagged his finger — the same one he said he didn't have sex with — and said, "I'm going to bring 'em to justice." And all we did was waste a bunch of cruise missiles in the desert in Afghanistan and a pharmaceutical plant in the Sudan. And the right way of dealing with terrorists is to keep the pressure on 'em, decapitate the leadership and disrupt them before they can carry out another attack. That's what Ronald Reagan did in 1986 — and I was involved — in dealing with Moammar Gadhafi (leader of Libya). And for four years, (Gadhafi) did nothing, absolutely nothing, except, you know, duck every time he saw an airplane fly overhead. And that's what should have been done with Osama bin Laden, and it wasn't. ... We're not going to go to war in Iraq because we want oil in Iraq. We're going to go to war in Iraq because Saddam Hussein poses a clear and present danger to the people of this country and to our allies and threatens them with weapons of mass distruction that wouldn't kill 3,025 like died on 9-11, but would kill 30,000 or more. ... I'll give you a prediction. The war in Iraq will be over in 30 days. American forces will be there for longer. Allied forces will be there for longer still. There'll be a democratic government in Baghdad. Baghdad isn't Kabul. Afghanistan and Iraq have almost nothing in common except a principally Islamic population. In fact, in Iraq you have a far more cosmopolitan, far better educated, resource-rich country where the next patriot population is going to come charging right back in to create a multi-party, a Legislature that makes real laws, an executive branch that carries them out and a free and independent judiciary. And you know what the message is at that point? If it works in Baghdad, why doesn't it work Riyadh, or Aman, or Damascus, or Cairo? And that's the real anxiety in that part of the world. It isn't getting rid of Saddam Hussein. It's saying, "Whoops! If democracy works in Baghdad, why isn't it working here?"

Let's go back to your comment on former President Clinton. Are you saying that Sept. 11 could have been prevented if he hadn't "wrung his hands?"

He didn't even wring his hands! He did nothing! He did absolutely nothing! Look at ... I mean think about it. The first World Trade Center attack is in 1993, run by al Queda. OK? And they finally get around to prosecuting some people. He has al Queda terrorists murdering people right outside the C.I.A. We lose two embassies. There were over 5,000 casualties in Tanzania and Nariobi. I mean, my God! We lose the barracks in Dharan! ... We have an attack launched in Kuwait! This guy did nothing! The USS Cole has 39 casualties! (He) did nothing! A terrorist says, "If I can get away with it, I do it!" Which is why the FARC is still doing it Columbia, and why Osama bin Laden was still doing it on 9-11. He ain't doing it anymore.

What's your opinion on how the Bush administration has handled the war on terrorism thus far?

Well, the only way a responsible administration could. ... We still don't have a Homeland Security Act, thanks to Tom Daschle and, quite frankly, too damn many Democrats. That's why it's been held up. We need that! The country needs to have adequate defenses laid out. ... Think about this. This is the kind of obstructionism that is basically making it difficult for them to do what needs to be done. I think this war is being pursued the only way a responsible administration of any party could pursue it, and certainly wasn't done back in the 1990s.

Even 12 to 15 years after the fact, you still take heat from some in the public and the media for your role in Iran-Contra. Just this year ...

(A bit agitated.) Look, you know, no one in the "public" walks up to me to me and says, "Iran-Contra." It's only the media.

Well, part of that might be out of courtesy. I mean, no one's going to just walk up to you and ...

Sure ... people walk up to me all the time. I mean, I take calls every day on my radio show from the two-and-a-half-million Americans who listen to it. And they're anonymous. They can call from anywhere in the country. We don't filter them out. We take them in the order in which they're received. The media — and I work in the media, I go to work in 400 North Capitol St. every single day that I'm in town, and every single media outlet in America is in that building — are the only ones that have this fixation. And all I can figure out is that some people have decided that the only way they can make a living in life is to say bad things about other people. Which is one of the reasons I love ("War Stories"). Because all I get to do is sit down with heroes and let them tell good stories. I look at the experience of serving with the man I still describe as the greatest president of the 20th century ...

Ronald Reagan?

Yeah, absolutely! And say to myself, I can tell my grandchildren that I worked for the guy who brought down the Evil Empire. Those who want to go on the attack, apparently still revere (Clinton) ... the only thing he brought down was his pants. And I look at that and say, you know, "They got a problem. I'm not going to make it mine." I have never, never — even when I was young man, sat down and played the shoulda, woulda, coulda game. I mean, it would've been nice not to have been shot. It would've been nice not to have been a patient here at Tripler or some of the other places I've been, you know, laid up with holes in the body. ... You play shoulda, woulda, coulda in your life (and) you're gonna be mighty unhappy. I never have.

Doesn't it gnaw at you, though, that virtually every press article about you still mentions your involvement in Iran-Contra as part of your bio?

If that's what you do tomorrow in this piece, then so be it. But you know what? I'm not gonna make that my problem. That's your problem, or those of our colleagues — yours and mine, because I'm a war correspondent, I understand that — and if that's their problem or your problem, so be it. It's not gonna become mine.

The stories you do on "War Stories" are those of heroes and patriots. What's your definition of both?

You know, I was watching (television) the other day as one of the baseball players playing in the World Series was described as a hero. And I guess that's part of the perversion of the English language. I graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy, which is not famous for teaching English scholars, but I can read the dictionary. And the definition of hero that I accept is a person who has put themselves at risk to insure that others (don't have to). In other words, these are people — in the case of "War Stories" — soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, guardsmen, who put themselves in some jeopardy so that others wouldn't be. One of the interviews I did here just a few weeks ago was Joe Foss, for the show on Guadalcanal, which will air ... as part of the new season. Joe Foss was the first ace in World War II, the first Medal of Honor in World War II. Had it not been for Joe Foss and a handful of people he led, Guadalcanal could have gone in an entirely different direction. He was a young 25-year-old kid who just happened to be ... a hero. Those are my heroes.

Are you a music fan at all?

Yeah ... country and western, mostly.

OK, what's the last couple of CDs you bought?

Oh gosh! You know, I don't buy any CDs. People send them to me.

How about movies?

Well, let's see, what's the last movie I went to? Well, of course Fox sent me to "Black Hawk Down," which I thought was a great flick and probably the most accurate portrayal of combat this side of the real thing. Actually, the kinds of movies I like are funny movies. I like going to be entertained. I like humor. And unfortunately, right now, I've not been home long enough in the last three months to be able to sit and say I actually saw a movie.

What's your favorite war film?

Well, it's not "Pearl Harbor." I mean, I know you're in ...

Well, in spite of what you might think, the film is not a big favorite here.

It's so distorted and so grossly inaccurate. I had just finished shooting the Doolittle Raiders episode (of "War Stories") when that thing came out, and I was talking to those guys. Boy, they really hated it. I'd say (my favorite) is probably "Black Hawk," because of the accuracy of it. "Saving Private Ryan" was a great flick, but it's a creation ... a mythical creation. In our business you see so much stuff coming across the wire. I remember seeing something as the school year was starting last year (that said) that 11 percent of college students believed that the reason why the Allies landed at Normandy was to save Private Ryan, which I find to be frightening. But the nice thing about "Black Hawk" is all the dialogue, all the events, actually happened. And that's a pretty important thing in terms of a record of what happens when ... bad decisions are made along the line, and yet, that doesn't stop youngsters from being extraordinary heroes.

Are we ever going to hear any of your war stories on "War Stories?"

I don't want this show to be about me. I want it to be about them. ... This show isn't about me. I know I'm a fairly well-known person. I get mistaken for myself a lot. But the show is really about them. And so, when I can sit down with real heroes and let them tell their story, I think it resonates. I think it's why the show does so well.