The wreckage was spotted Saturday on steep terrain between Wai'ale'ale and Mount Kahili in Kaua'i's central mountains. Fire department crews were unable to reach the site Saturday afternoon and yesterday due to clouds, rain and winds gusting to 60 miles an hour.

The fire department asked for assistance from the Army's 68th Medical Company, part of the 25th Infantry Division (Light) Aviation Brigade. The unit's UH60 Black Hawk helicopters are bigger and more powerful than the Hughes 500 that the fire department normally uses for rescues, and should be better able to handle high winds.

Meanwhile, families and friends are holding out hope for survivors.

"I realize that the reports are grim, however there are many concerned friends holding on to the hope that these wonderful people are still alive," said Brandon Wheeler, of Cleveland, Ohio.

Two of the crash victims are reportedly Ohio residents: attorney Thomas J. Huemmer, 36, of Avon, and his 30-year-old girlfriend, of Westlake, whose name has not been released. Huemmer's name was released by his father, who told The Morning Journal newspaper in Lorain, Ohio, that he received a call from the father of his son's girlfriend.

The couple was visiting Hawai'i with her family. Local authorities said the girlfriend's parents and sister had been on a Bali Hai helicopter tour immediately before the tour involved in the crash.

None of the other people aboard has been identified. The pilot has been described as a veteran helicopter pilot originally from India, where he flew in the military, and who had been flying on Kaua'i for about three months. The other two passengers are a couple from Germany.

Crews who were able to view the latest crash site said there was no indication that anyone survived Friday's wreck.

The helicopter disappeared on a circle-island flight Friday afternoon, hit a cliff south of Wai'ale'ale and burned. Wai'ale'ale, an area of towering cliffs, postcard waterfalls, fast-changing weather, has been the location of three fatal copter crashes since 1998.

The three crashes, the worst in Kaua'ii history, all occurred in the island's central mountains within four miles of each other — each at high elevation, each against the same massive cliff formation. Presuming all five aboard Friday's Bali Hai flight were killed, 16 people have died in the three crashes spread over little more than six years.

Yesterday, rescuers faced clouds, pelting rain and winds gusting to 50 to 60 mph. By mid-afternoon, the clouds had cleared but the winds were still so strong that a rescue helicopter could not get crews to the wreckage.

The gusting wind and fast-moving weather of the Wai'ale'ale Crater area are well known to helicopter pilots.

"If you're not careful, the weather up there can get you easily," Bali Hai owner James Le said last year after the crash of a Jack Harter Helicopters craft that killed five people.

An immense volcanic rock face runs from the center of Kaua'i directly south. The weathered cliff faces eastward into the trade winds, and as moist winds are forced up to cooler high-elevations, clouds form and rain falls. The cliffs are thick with vegetation as a result of prodigious rainfall.

Countless waterfalls stripe the green face. The corrugated cliffs range from 3,089 feet above sea level at Kahili to the south, to 5,243 feet at Kawaikini — Kaua'i's highest point — and 5,143 feet at Wai'ale'ale just north of that.

The scenic waterfalls attract tour helicopters, and the Federal Aviation Administration has established special rules to try to ensure the safety of passengers. FAA regulations mandate that helicopters stay at least 500 feet below clouds and 1,000 feet above the surface, and fly in areas with at least three miles of visibility. But those conditions can change suddenly.

On the day a Bell JetRanger like Bali Hai's crashed into Wai'ale'ale last year, Le said his pilots told him the weather was clear on the morning of the crash. The same afternoon, when he tried to fly a television crew in, the Wai'ale'ale summit area was socked in.

The official National Transportation Safety Board accident report for the June 25, 1998, crash of an 'Ohana Helicopters Aerospatiale 350-BA, at about 2,400 feet elevation, describes what happened in that case.

"As the flight progressed, the pilot encountered lowering ceilings, heavy intensity rain showers, and reduced flight visibility. The pilot became disoriented, misjudged his location, and while cruising toward what he believed was the prescribed crater entranceway inadvertently entered instrument meteorological conditions. Just before the collision, the pilot transmitted to the pilots ahead of him that the weather was getting worse and that he could not see," said the NTSB report, written by investigator Wayne Pollack.

Moments later, the helicopter hit the crater wall, killing the pilot and his five passengers.

Pollack was also the investigator in the July 23, 2003, crash of a Jack Harter Helicopters Bell 206B JetRanger at about 4,600 feet above sea level, but his final report has not yet been released. Pollack's preliminary report suggests there is less information available about that accident than the 1998 crash.

"Several tour pilots subsequently reported that, at the time, the crater area was unusually clear. There were a few scattered clouds around the crater, but the area was mostly clear. No witnesses reported observing the accident," the preliminary report said.

It was not apparent what the weather conditions were at the site Friday when Bali Hai's Jet Ranger crashed. National Transportation Safety Board investigator Nicole Charnon said that the last sighting of the helicopter was miles away, near Waimea Canyon, and there were no reports of subsequent radio traffic from the helicopter.

The area was socked in by clouds shortly after the crash. A dozen search aircraft that repeatedly flew the chopper's anticipated flight path were unable to see it during flights late Friday and much of Saturday. A Coast Guard crew spotted the wreckage about 2 p.m. Saturday during a break in the weather, but the clouds quickly moved back in.

In the previous two crashes, fire department rescue crews risked their lives in heavy clouds, rain and winds to recover the bodies on steep terrain. Fire Chief Dennis Furushima, who is overseeing the latest operation, said he did not want to do anything that left firefighters on the cliffside overnight.

In the 1998 crash, a firefighter was forced to spend the night on the cliffs with the remains of the crash's victims, because weather deteriorated so badly that he could not be evacuated before dark.

In last year's helicopter crash, a victim survived for six hours in swirling clouds on the mountainside. Firefighters were dropped to the site and were at her side for her last several hours, but she died before weather cleared sufficiently for her evacuation.