No new ideas surfaced that are not already under consideration in the 2030 master plan environmental impact review, which should be in first draft form by late summer.

At the "Kahului Harbor ... Squeeze Play" forum at Good Shepherd Church hall, a couple of numbers were thrown out, and they were very big.

State Transportation Director Barry Fukunaga said extending the east breakwater and making improvements to allow berthing on the west breakwater could cost "more than $100 million."

Souki, the state House transportation chairman, said the costs of making needed harbor improvements statewide could be upwards of $500 million.

The panel, sponsored by Wailuku Main Street Association/Tri-Isle Main Street Resource Center, was intended especially to throw light on the problems of farmers and small businesses.

Aric Nakashima, co-owner of Pukalani Superette, said he worried that congestion could end up giving an unintended advantage to big-box retailers. Because it is more efficient to bring in containers than pallet-load shipments, small businesses would be at a disadvantage when they're unable to bring in whole containers.

Lonnie Hardesty, owner of Proteas Hawaii, noted that flower growers don't need the harbor for exports, but they depend on it to bring in supplies.

Fukunaga said a state study found Hawaii imports 80 percent of what it consumes and that 98.6 percent of imports come by sea.

"We can't depend on everything coming from air," said Nakashima.

Dave Ward of Hawaiian Canoe Club represented recreational users of the harbor.

The harbor was built, starting small in the 19th century, as a commercial port, but many recreational uses have taken advantage of its sheltered water, which is otherwise unavailable on the north shore.

Ward said planners should ask themselves: "What is recreational use?"

It isn't just paddlers, kayakers or boaters. He noted that the canoe club hosts an "at-risk school," Hui Malama programs and a hula halau.

Like the small-business owners, he called for balance. "We have to figure out a way to co-exist."

Contractor Tom Cooke said: "We can't afford waiting to expand. Cost and difficulties compound over time."

Souki agreed. He reminded the 30 people in the audience that in 1993, when he was speaker of the House, the state had put on a road show across Maui, seeking reaction to proposals for a second harbor. (Maui is the only one of the four main islands without one.)

Proposals included Maalaea, Ukumehame, Olowalu "and even Mala."

"The communities all stated they did not want it," Souki said, "In Lahaina, they were unanimously against it."

He added: "Based on that, the governor agreed to defer, unfortunately. Because of deferral, we have the problem we have now."

Souki said he hopes the frustration of harbor users "will be a spur to move this along."

Kahului Harbor is the most problematic of the state harbors, said Fukunaga, but only in degree. The three big problems are land, berthing space and finances.

Berthing space is the more critical, because the Harbors Division is not quite out of land in Kahului. It is out of berthing space.

The old coral spoil area, or west breakwater beckons, but it will be difficult and expensive to turn it into berths.

Kahului Harbor was dredged out of a shallow pocket of Kahului Bay. The turning basin is 35 feet deep, which leaves a foot of water, maybe less, under the keel of a heavily laden ship.

It wouldn't be just a matter of dredging along the west breakwater. In certain wind and sea conditions, water can surge into the harbor, snapping mooring lines and slamming vessels against the existing piers. This makes Kahului one of the few harbors anywhere in which people can surf.

The same wave conditions could cause reverberations that would slam ships against the pier on the west breakwater, if one were built.

The proposed solutions for that are not only expensive, preliminary studies show they would create new surge conditions at Piers 1 and 2.

Fukunaga says DOT wants the Army Corps of Engineers to use its hydraulic experimental station to more carefully develop models of the outcomes of various alterations to the breakwaters and protective systems along the entrance channel.

But, he said, money is an even more difficult hurdle than surge.

Unlike airports, there is not a large dedicated stream of federal support for harbor improvements, although there is limited federal support available.

User fees support the state's share of harbor improvements and operations. Users have banded together in the Honolulu and Maui harbor users groups and have told the Legislature that they will support increases in user fees.

That is if, Souki said, the Legislature guarantees that all money raised will be spent directly on harbor improvements.