DANA POINT, Calif. — More games that count, perhaps as early as August 2011? That's exactly what NFL commissioner Roger Goodell wants.

There are several hurdles before the league can expand its regular season from 16 to 17 or 18 games. Among them is reaching a new collective bargaining agreement with the players' union.

Still, the commissioner hopes to present a proposal to the owners in May after the matter was discussed at length this week at the owners meetings.

"It's possible that we could vote in May, but we want to have core discussions on this," Goodell said Wednesday. "Anytime you have change, there is some reluctance. But it's clear we don't need four preseason games anymore."

Goodell said the league has not seriously discussed the subject with its broadcast partners. He couldn't imagine them not being interested in more meaningful games.

"I think the quality of NFL programming, that every one of our network partners would say, if they have the chance to have more regular-season programming, they'd be interested in it," Goodell said. "A key point is the fans also recognize players they want to see are not in those preseason games; that's why they are not attractive. They want to see those players play."

As for those players and their union, Goodell recognizes an expanded schedule will be part of CBA negotiations. Owners opted out of the current deal last year, and it expires after the 2010 schedule, which would be an uncapped season.

"Under the current agreement, additional regular-season games would not be covered," Goodell said. "I think our most important priority after we get done with our internal analysis is talking to our key partners, and that includes the players. I think we want to make sure that the right dialogue takes place before we make any final votes."

DeMaurice Smith, the NFLPA's incoming executive director, wants any decision that affects the players to happen collaboratively.

"His hope is that the concerns and interests of the players will be seriously considered," said George Atallah, a director at the public relations firm Qorvis Communications and a spokesman for Smith during his transition. "He was elected by the players to be their advocate on such issues and is more than ready to serve them."

Among the issues team owners must discuss is when the regular season would begin; how many bye weeks would be scheduled; how deep into February the playoffs and Super Bowl would go; and when the offseason programs — including the combine and the draft — would be held.

Plus, where would the extra games be played, particularly with 17 of them?

One possibility, an idea Goodell and senior vice president of sales and marketing Mark Waller first mentioned several years ago, would be 17 neutral-site games, including some aboard. That would enable the league to step up its efforts internationally, a particular goal of Goodell's.

"There's been some discussion about that," Goodell said. "That's been one of the appealing features of converting preseason games into regular-season games is it gives you more inventory, more games that you can take to neutral sites, either internationally or domestically. So that is a compelling feature."

Another option would be having one conference play nine home games during a season, and the other conference do so the next year.

An 18-game schedule, obviously, would eliminate such concerns. It also would mean dropping two preseason contests.

"Fans don't believe preseason games are up to our standards," Goodell said.

Clearly, neither does he.